How to Destroy the LDS Church

Now that my mission to wipe Mormonism from the face of the earth is out in the open, I wonder what the best course of action would be to bring it all crashing down.

A frontal assault generally doesn’t work. The people outside Temple Square waving garments, and the Ed Decker-type books don’t do much of anything to your average church member. Rather, the over-the-top antics and and questionable honesty of some of the books are likely to reinforce for some members the idea that there are evil and designing men (it’s usually men, isn’t it?) out to lead the membership astray.

Likewise, for a lot of church members, a simple recitation of facts doesn’t work, either. You can talk about moneydigging, bank fraud, polyandry, dishonesty, and Book of Abraham problems until you’re blue in the face, and people with a testimony will either shelve the problems or tell you that they aren’t central to their testimony, which is fine as it is.

So, what works? The single biggest tool is apathy. If its members don’t care about an organization one way or another, the organization will die. And ironically, sometimes I think the church is doing its level best to make itself less important to its members. Before the advent of correlation and uniform budgets, local units had a lot of leeway in creating programs and activities for members. The church not only served spiritual functions, but it served a social purpose. They used to talk about the “ward family,” and it was rather tight-knit.

But what has happened in the last twenty years or so is a retrenchment of central control from Salt Lake City. Every meeting and activity must have a “priesthood purpose,” and the social aspects of church membership are far subordinate to its spiritual purposes. And really, it’s hard to blame the church for refocusing as it has. The church is supposed to be in the business of saving people, not entertaining them. However, when activities become less about activity and more about being yet another iteration of sacrament meeting, people lose interest.

Similarly, budget constraints have severely restricted the types of activities that can be engaged in. Back in Texas, our young men had their canoeing trip to Oklahoma canceled about six weeks before the activity was to be held. Why? Money. The stake president had declared that no activity would be held that was more than 90 minutes away from the stake center. There’s only so much Scouting you can do on the prairies of central Texas, but that was what they would have to do.

Oddly enough, the one event that the stake splurged on was a pioneer re-enactment trek in Northeastern Oklahoma, which was from what I have heard, nearly a total disaster. The trek organizers made no pretense of it being a “fun” activity; the kids were told they would suffer for a few days to understand how much their ancestors suffered. And of course, the emphasis was to be on the spiritual, with a testimony meeting each night. Neither of my children came home spiritually uplifted or more committed to the church. They came home tired, injured, and a little angry about their ordeal.

Something else I have noticed is that the social function of the church has been swallowed up by paid events such as EFY and Education Week. Two of my kids went to EFY this year, and we shelled out $350 apiece for them to spend a week at BYU in fun activities and, of course, scripted spiritual experiences. But I wonder about those folks who don’t have $350 to spend on becoming more committed to the church. Maybe they’ll have to find something to get fired up about, such as fighting same-sex marriage.

So, I suppose my best shot at destroying the church is to do nothing. They can handle it themselves without my help.

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63 Responses to How to Destroy the LDS Church

  1. Or sign back up, get yourself “called” to some leadership position, and use your newfound power to hold lots and lots of frontier trek re-enactments. I’m thinking once a week should bring the church crashing down in no time!

  2. runtu says:

    That might just do it. I was talking to a friend today who said that taking the church seriously and being seriously committed to truth are the things that will get you out of the church. I couldn’t argue with him.

  3. Tim says:

    I’ve been thinking the thing that will eventually kill Mormonism (not necessarily the LDS church) will be the widespread use of a non-KJV Bible.

    If Mormons start using a Bible that is no longer archaic they will quite quickly get bored and frustrated by all of the unique Mormon scriptures and will start moving away from the unique claims found in them. They’ll enjoy the reading the Bible and become apathetic to the D&C.

  4. sideon says:

    The focus on secrecy and exclusion will be their own downfall. The Morg started the war on gays and lesbians, which they’ll never win, but they’ll make a lot of noise as their religion dies, trying. (Sorry, I’ve been reading a lot about spiritual warriors and I’m feeling a tad aggressive – downright stripling.)

    I do think you’ve nailed it, Runtu. The lack of truth and inclusiveness creates a climate of apathy. The Morgs own “weight” will tear itself down… from boredom.

  5. Secrecy is definitely a poison that will destroy an organization that is intent on growing. The combination of Mormons’ desire to be considered mainstream and their weird/secret rituals and beliefs is a bad combination. Mainstream and secrecy are caustic combos!

  6. cindybin says:

    I am just astounded. I glanced through your blog, and then see the post above by sideon; I am a Mormon convert since 1981, and there is no “secrecy” and “exclusion” in the LDS Church. There is no “war on gays and lesbians.” I can’t believe how distorted all this information is! I am just at a loss for words.

    • jared pussy harris says:

      oh yea you better come to utah,or get boyd k peckers conferance talk on gays..people are finding out the true history of the lds church and they are leaving in large numbers every month..its avalable to any one who wants to find it…the lds church is a fraudulant money making cult exmorman said that

  7. nearlynormalized says:

    Go for it, let’s get the shit started and don’t stop!!!!

  8. runtu says:

    cindybin,

    Of course there is secrecy and exclusion in the LDS church, unless you want to start talking about tokens, names, signs, and penalties. And as a church member, you know quite well that the church has not published its financial information since 1959. As for exclusion, just take a look at Sideon, who as a gay man is most definitely not welcome in the church.

    As for my blog, I would very much appreciate your pointing out where I have distorted any information. I have tried my best to be honest and fair in my posts, no matter what their content.

  9. Joe says:

    I have studied quite in depth various world religions for the past eight years and I have noticed some interesting things about religion and the LDS religion in particular. Here’s something you might find helpful.

    LDS doctrine and Mormon culture are two very different things. Unfortunately very few people in the LDS church seem to have the ability to separate the two because they get served up by Mormon culture on the same plate. Quite frankly there are Ass-holes in every social circle and the LDS church is not immune. The sad thing is that a lot of people have gotten burned by jerks in the Mormon faith because there are jerks and because those people were not aware enough to see the difference and separate culture, doctrine and cultural doctrine.

    Almost every legitimate animosity that someone has toward the LDS church comes from cultural doctrine. And don’t get me wrong most every complaint is very legitimate.

    Much of the doctrine that the LDS church adopts and teaches to its members seems to be geared largely to the mentality of the people at the time. From my own experience and the experience of others the stuff we find repulsive about the church is all the culture crap.

    A good question to test where any spiritual discipline’s core doctrine lies is to ask “What would the religion be like if it was started in Bangladesh in 1280 AD?” This is also true to individual and independent spirituality. What would be present if all the cultural influences were removed?

    The priesthood issue with the Mormon faith is a prime example. According to early church history Joseph Smith gave priesthood authority to blacks before the church declaration in 1978. Culturally the people couldn’t handle it so to preserve the spread of the religion it was deemed doctrinally wrong by the new leaders. Women in the church have been traditionally viewed by people in and out as not being able to hold priesthood. But when you take an honest look at the what goes on in the temple women are given all the same priesthood the men are given. Women even operate with priesthood the same as the men do in the LDS temples.

    It’s interesting to note that with the New Testament the same problem was encountered with the spreading of Christianity to the “gentiles”. The Jews couldn’t handle people who were deemed “inferior” having the same benefits as they themselves claimed. When the mentality of the Jewish converts changed, or they simply were sloughed off, a new doctrine was given to Peter to spread the gospel to the world. Many other religions have experienced similar events.

    What we consider weird is most often a question of time and context. It is the mistake of every personal modern culture, no matter when they lived, to view themselves so above or free of the deplorable natures of other less modern or personal cultures, whether your Catholic, Taoist, Agnostic, or “Whatever”.

  10. cindybin says:

    Ha, I just found your blog again. There it was, right on the list of featured blogs at WordPress. Anyway, all these tokens and names and signs and stuff, it isn’t about “secrets”. There is a difference between secret and sacred. The financial information stuff isn’t about secrets, either. I don’t know anything about Sideon, but this stuff about gays is distorted, too. We are supposed to love everybody, whether they are gay or straight. That is just basic for any church or for all human beings, I would think. It’s not that gays “aren’t welcome” in the church. If there are people who are not making him feel welcome, that is their fault, it does not mean the church isn’t true. Again, this is all just so distorted. Shunning people based on their sexual orientation is not what the Church is about. I could go on and on but it would take pages, and you probably wouldn’t understand, anyway.

    Now that I have your blog bookmarked, I will see if I can scroll through it and find any more distorted information. I hesitate to do these things, though, because I tend to get upset. But I’ll see what I can do. Cindy

    • Carmelina says:

      haha. “We love everyone. Of course, we spend millions to try to make our government discriminates against homosexuals, but we do it out of love.” Yeah, we probably wouldn’t understand anyway. You’re so wise, we just can’t follow your logic. duh.

  11. K*tty says:

    cindybin, if you live in California, you know darn well the church has issued a “request” from the prophet to use the means possible to defeat gay marriage. I just hope they don’t get carried away like they did when Brigham Young suggested essentially the same thing, different subject, but same emphasis. (Mountain Meadows Massacre)

    Last I checked, the prophet belonged to your church that you say doesn’t discriminate, euphemism for “exclude.” Just the term “worthy” (a Mormon pounded concept) is exclusion at its very best.

    • John says:

      Brigham Young DID NOT order the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

      John Lee did and was executed for it.

      You are a liar.

      • runtu says:

        Uh, who are you talking to, John? My post doesn’t mention the MMM, and I don’t believe Brigham Young “ordered” it, either.

  12. jr says:

    cindybin: aside from the tokens, etc, the institution of the Church is less than honest about it’s past. Why do the lesson manuals ignore so much of the church’s history regarding the Mormon War, polygamy, the reasons behind the Nauvoo Expositer as well as the reasons for Gov Boggs’ extermination order? Just for mentioning these issues in a public forum, active members have received church discipline.

  13. bull says:

    Well, people like cindybin can claim that the church has no “secrecy” or “exclusion” in the same way that China can claim that its people freedom of religion and human rights “in accordance with their laws.” Of course said laws deprive them of freedom of religion and human rights. But those religions and rights are perceived as harmful to the government so it’s okay to ban them in order to maintain peace and harmony. It’s positively Orwellian right to the point of the people not realizing how controlled they are.

    My favorite example is my father’s response when I asked if he could ever consider that the church might be false. “Of course, I can, but then I immediately reject the idea because it’s ludicrous.” Ummm okay. That would be a no then. Can you say “doublespeak”?

  14. fuschang says:

    About gay marriage. This is a country where individual beliefs and actions were not restricted by the government in any for any reason except for one. People were allowed and encouraged to believe and do what they pleased as long it wasn’t against the law. The law was instituted to protect the integrity of the states and the union of the states from any and all social (among others) instability as possible. This is why states and federal governments made laws to restrict and/or punish anything that undermined the stability of individuals, families, communities, states and countries.

    Whatever is legal is legal and should be respected as such. If you have a problem with a potential law it is your right to take lawful action and prevent it from becoming so. If you have a problem a current law it is also your right to take awful action to remove and/or replace it.

    I don’t care what you’re doing or believing as long as it promotes *stability* and *responsibility* in and outside of yourself.

    Whether your homosexual or heterosexual, single or in any degree of a relationship—–do your thoughts, feelings or actions promote stability and responsibility or not?

    What is your belief and actions doing to you and your relationships?

    Does it make you honest and true?

    Does it increase your ability to act for yourself and take responsibility for your those same actions?

    If you’re a Mormon, Gay, Straight, Green, Blue, Black, White, Male or Female I don’t care; If you mentally, emotionally, physically or sexually violate another person the law of the land is (hopefully) going to step up against you.

    I am for any law that promotes stability and responsibility in individuals and nations. Anyone who is an intelligent person would as well.

    I say to anyone or group who wants a law in their favor to first prove to the rest of us that you will satisfy the purpose of law. Thats how laws get started in the first place in any free land. Show us that your particular cause will promote stability and responsibility.

    The Founders of our nation thought that people who honored traditional concepts of marriage measured up to the purpose of law and as a result gave them certain privileges for promoting peace. If you look at court histories you will never find two people in opposition who were honest and true to each other.

    If California thinks that Gay marriages will measure up they have the right to make it legal. If California doesn’t think so they have the right to decline the request.

    If you’re a Mormon and against Gay marriage just because its Gay you’re undeserving of your assumed higher spirituality. If you’re a part of any personal or group belief system and your for Gay marriage just because it is Gay you should be ashamed of yourself.

    Heterosexuals aren’t granted a marriage license just because they are heterosexual, but because they made a legal contract to promote stability and responsibility in themselves and their relationship; and as a result the community benefits. If they break that contract they are punishable by law.

    runtu is right about one thing for sure: If an individual or group is in the wrong they will end up harming themselves in the sort or long end of it all.

  15. runsvold says:

    Non-Chrstian cults fade fast over the course of time, as Christian Science has done n the last 30 years – beginning not many years after Joseph Smith invented the Mormon religion. They self-destruct because the lies they construct as a house of cards eventually crumbles, crashing down in a revolt that may be harbored internally more than expressed internally, mirroring the apathy many of you suggest as the trigger of the downfall of the LDS church of current day. Interesting thoughts. In the end, the question remains: Will those who believe they have approached their desire to seek God in a persoanl way give up or press on? The Bible says: “…if you seek Him, He will let you find Him…” I suggest that any who haven’t finalized their choice in the matter of whether they will cling to that promise consider the warning of its context: “The Lord s with you when you are with Him; and if you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will forsake you” (2 Chronicles 15:2). I was raised in Christian Science, plucked out of it somehow as a college student nearly 30 years ago. Thank You, Lord! I have a close friend whose family escaped Mormonism grasp on them: both parents, 2 older brothers, when he was in high school. What I remember of conversations: leading LDS theologian back in the day Bruce McConkie wrote, in hs commentaries approved by the LDS church, “Moroni. SEE Angel of Light.” Going to that reference, “Angel of Light. SEE Devil.” That’s enough for me. In Christian Science, founder Mary Baker Eddy wrote: “Jesus was not the Christ,” Miscellany, p84, line 13 ??? …but that puts her & that religion in direct conflict with God’s Word that warns of such things in 1 John 2:22 that anybody who denies Jesus is the Christ is of the antichrist. In the end, the truth will prevail. May we all be found on the side of God’s truth. How did Abe Lincoln say it: “I’m not concerned so much about whether God is on my side as I am about whether I am on God’s side.” Grace be with you all.

  16. Intrigued says:

    I’ve just started reading your posts and am curious, what exactly happened in the past week or so, since you wrote the post at http://runtu.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/too-much-hate/ that you’ve gone from saying, “I don’t wish the LDS church ill, and I sure as heck don’t expect it to go away anytime soon. It works for millions of people, and that is fine with me.” and “I don’t set out to destroy Mormonism (as if you could) or to sow doubts in believers’ hearts. I just try to tell the truth, as I see it” to writing a post titled “How to Destroy the LDS Church”?

    Anyhow. I visited a friend at BYU once, he was training to be a missionary and was attending a “sharing the Gospel” course. Since I am a non-denominational Christian, I thought the course would be interesting, so I went and sat in the back of the lecture hall. I have to admit I was a bit shocked when the topic of that day’s course was, “How to witness to Christians in the Bible belt.” You have a church that wants to claim it is “mainstream Christian” but then teach its missionaries to try to convert Christians. If Mormons are Christians, then why do they need to convert other Christians to their religion? That lecture was clearly not meant for my ears. Ultimately, my friend and I discussed and agreed to disagree on the topic. While on his mission we exchanged letters of encouragement to each other, focusing on our relationship with Jesus Christ and never really discussing the importance of Joseph Smith in regard to his beliefs.

    Anyhow, I find this an interesting topic of discussion.

  17. runtu says:

    Nothing has changed. As I said, this post was sort of tongue-in-cheek, as I’ve recently been accused of being on a mission to destroy the LDS church. I am not and really do not care whether the church thrives or not. The post was more about the social and structural changes in the church since correlation and budget consolidation and the effects they are having on commitment and activity among members.

  18. Eric Nielson says:

    If all the commitment members have is a social one then your predictions might be true.

    I think there is a lot more to the commitment of most active members than you realize.

  19. runtu says:

    I’m not saying that it’s “all the commitment,” but the social cohesion is important. In my many years in the church, I saw that most people were committed to the church insofar as it had a meaningful impact on their lives. I think that with correlation and budget consolidation, that is less true for some people, and I suspect that will impact the church down the road. But it’s not going away, and a lot of members are highly committed spiritually.

  20. K*tty says:

    runsvold, thanks for your post. It has touched my heart. I so needed to read that today and be reminded.

  21. Tom Clark says:

    Late arriving to the party but Cindybin posted over on Sideon’s blog and that’s how I ended up here. Typically I refrain from commenting on mormonism since it’s ancient history to me. But I do maintain an active voice when it comes to the unique challenges of being gay and mormon.

    Mormons are trying these days to make us believe that those of us who are gay are welcome in the church. Welcome however, only if we remain celibate.

    Oh my, the huge caveat that 99.9% of mormons either don’t know about or conveniently fail to mention when they say how much they love us and welcome us.

    Now really, how much can you truly care about me if you want me to go all of my life without love, without companionship, without sex? You’ve got to be kidding, right?

    You go all of your life if you want to without love, companionship and sex. But how extraordinarily arrogant and uncaring of you to ask me to do it. You can take your sisal welcome mat with the smiley celibate face on it, roll it up and shove it up your ass.

    Celibacy is unhuman and I pity anybody who takes it on because they think that’s what “god” wants. Look at how well that’s worked for the Catholic Church. Their program for celibacy has created a centuries-old culture of abuse and pedophaelia. No thanks. I’ll just go out and have honest sex with other honest consenting adults and leave the abuse of children to those who keep swearing their undying celibacy to jeebus, jopes and mariah.

    Mormons want us alright, with our balls cut off or our ovaries ripped out and our hearts completely sealed shut.

    No thanks.

    p.s. cindybin, your ignorance as to the realities of being gay & mormon is deep and wide. You’re in over your head and have absolutely no clue as to what you’re talking about. If you really want to inform yourself then I’ve created a website where gay mormons talk about their experiences. Might be a good place for you to start so that you don’t keep spouting your “gays are welcome” poop.

    http://www.gaymormonstories.com

    • As a Catholic I feel the need to respond. There is a similar attitude in the official Catholic church: Homosexual persons are welcome but if they act on their homosexual feelings (i.e., have sexual relations with someone of the same gender) then that is a sin. However, most of the Catholics I hang out with are not that hard-core about that official teaching and have no problem with gay marriage. Many Catholics are working to make the church a more inclusive environment, but there are big issues in the Catholic church and I’m sure the efforts still feel quite hollow to those on the receiving end. The homosexual issue is very similar to the women and the priesthood issue and the married priests issue within the Catholic church…namely, there is injustice and change might come but it won’t be in our lifetimes, unfortunately.

      Anyway, I wanted to address the celibacy thing. I see no problem with celibacy if it is self-chosen as a way of dedicating oneself to God. Even some lay people may choose this life and find it quite rewarding. However, I have a huge issue with celibacy being imposed on people, especially homosexuals who did not choose their lot in life. Theoretically, it is slightly better for priests since they choose to become priests while knowing celibacy is a component of the job; however, I do not deny that it is probably still a huge hardship for many of them. (I personally think priests should be allowed to marry if they choose, like is done in the Orthodox church.) I do NOT believe that celibacy is the cause of the terrible sexual abuse situation in the Catholic church. If celibacy were the cause of sex abuse, then how would one explain how married persons in leadership positions in various religions have also committed such sins. If celibacy caused sex abuse, wouldn’t it be all or most of the priests sinning in this way? People who have the tendency for such crimes also have the tendency to choose professions where they have access. Becoming a priest is one such way to gain access…and it becomes worse when the church hides the crimes and keeps the priests active even knowing what they’ve done.

      I am very sad that you needed to choose between being true to yourself and being able to remain in your church. Feeling unaccepted and exiled from one’s own church must be absolutely terrible. I hope that these things will change soon that all people can find love and companionship in healthy relationships within their faith communities.

    • Zadok says:

      Tom, I completely sympathize with your argument. I have numerous relatives and friends who are gay (lds and non). And more than one who have died from aids (only lds). Your comment was completely justified because I couldn’t imagine many “welcoming” a life not only of celibacy, but void of romantic- not necessarily sexual- companionship. I only request that you consult Paul, formerly known as Saul. His life of celibacy, and petition that we be as well, is deeply rooted in Christian and LDS culture. Though not practiced, just recognize that the invitation to “join on account that you’re celibate” often doesn’t sound strange to the former groups. Personally, marriage has been difficult for me because I feel no attraction to companionship or sex. I have had to learn to foster companionship (though it doesn’t feel natural) because I believe God intends for us to engage in such intimate relationships. There is something important to be learned in them.

  22. mattman says:

    You go Tom! :) *stands and applauds*

  23. esteban says:

    I just visited cindybin’s blog. For starters, Cindy is 51 years old. Much too old to be acting like she has any sort of wisdom in this world, to even contribute to other’s pages like Sideon’s is laughable. The Mormon God cherishes innocent people, and so we see a 51 year old person typing and acting like a 5 year old, like most Mormons I know. Does anyone really believe that God prefers innocent people? You can’t create a world and listen all your spirit children’s problems and maintain innocence, it’s ridiculous. The MoGod wishes to keep his believers as naive as possible so they won’t use their brains. Their thinking has be done.

    The Mormon church is a rat’s nest of hate when it comes to homosexuals. I somehow survived 12 years of their “reparative therapy” program alive. Some men don’t, some commit suicide. My 16 year eternal marriage came to a screeching halt when my Ex and I realized we had been lied to relentlessly. The church tells hmosexual people that because homosexuality is a “sin”, it can be overcome like all sins. Homosexuality is not a sin, and it’s not a “lifestyle”. It’s like eye color, you can’t change it no matter how hard you try.

    This is the sinister lie, and it harms so many people, and tears members and family to shreds as they put their faith into such lies, endless lies. The LDS leaders counsel gay men to marry and it will “cure” them. When it doesn’t, they tell them that Evergreen will “fix” them. When it doesn’t, and they’re out of ideas, they stop talking to you. The MoGod abandons you, your family abandons you, and slowly but surely you are expected to turn off your self and become a zombie. That’s when gay mormons are faced with either transcending to horrific “gospel”, or killing themselves.

    This is what Cinybin and most all Mormons don’t get. Don’t let her ridiculous offer of “help” been seen for anything more than another LDS lie, among the endless LDS lies. Cindybin is either a straight woman, or a lesbian fighting the truth. If she’s a straight woman, she cannot offer any help. If she’s a lesbian fighting reality, she’s going to have to go through what I descibed above. Either way, it’s her road, and nothing she posts can possible be taken as serious. We aren’t some group of moronic Mormons here who just fell off the fucking turnip truck.

    e

  24. Dan Walter says:

    You’d be better off buring this stupid idea altogether. It’s a sure path to what you don’t want to happen, happening.

  25. runtu says:

    Apparently, sarcasm is a lost art.

  26. Anthony says:

    I really don’t understand you people! If our church is not true, then why are you trying so hard to destroy it..?

    If I were you, think again. Do not be overwhelmed with what you know and see, but try to restore your faith and live with it.

  27. runtu says:

    Once again, sarcasm seems to be lost on Anthony.

  28. Janet says:

    I agree. Ignore them. Mormons are not human beings anyway.

  29. lalalegal says:

    Anyone who thinks Mormonism is anything short of a crutch for the pathetically weak minded is clearly suffering from the mental atrophy the church fosters. Especially you converts. How sad and pathetic would you have to be to convert to such an insane and weak minded cult? I suggest therapy for whatever happened to you you, not clinging to useless and delusional beliefs. I know several ex-Mormons who have told me all about the ridiculous ceremonies and hubabaloo that goes on in the higher echelons of that institution. Did you know that if the church were taxed, as it legally should be for it’s breach of separation of church and state (see tax law 501c), they would be 43rd on the Fortune 500 list because of all the money they bilk from the sheep that they suck into their evil pyramid scheme? Furthermore, do you have any idea of the harm that their “missionary work” causes in the world? Take a class, get an education, read a book other than the silly BS they give you. They are ethnocentric and cause way more harm than good and are a virus/plague on the planet. p.s. Anthony…you are a moron (please note that the one letter difference from mormon was probably a type-o in the first place) hahahahaha.

  30. shaun says:

    I was reviewing all your comments,very interesting i dont believe in arguing a point that has so many holes in it. The only think i do have to ad is do you know that the lds church was not the only denomination that was funding and asking its members to appose the proposition 8. But the lds chruch gets the wrap because its the least understood and the easiest to git people to get all up in arms. But i dont see that they are being mentioned. Isnt that kinda sad that because when you have a different view your considered a hatemonger. So if you wanted to read many of these post then are you not becoming exactly the people that you oppose or hate. thanks shaun

  31. pwaldrop2 says:

    …What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints (Doctrine & Covenants 121: 33)

  32. Mark says:

    “The Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints” Is that what you call it when the zombies all stand up, one after another, at “testimony” meeting and cite their pointless belief in the “one true church and that Joseph Smith (a pederast pervert and convicted con-man, who “married” 33 women as young as 14 who many where already married to other men, so he had plenty to bone) Yeah that does sound like the work of the Almighty…..

  33. Phillip Wise says:

    I enjoyed your article. did you hear about that guy who was molested by an LDS leader who is now suing the mormon establishment for 45 million, that gave me an idea. What if you had a petition of about 2000 to 3000 signatures of former Mormons, former LDS leaders and LDS missionarys who have all left and united in one big law suit for the purpose of suing the LDS Church for fraud, exploitation and God knows what else for the sum of 20 to 25 billion. If one man can sue them for 45 million, how much could 3000 sue for.

  34. guest says:

    Mormonism is a testament of torment. Lucifer constructs unholy reincarnation through thy corrupted cycles. Let it known that Mormonism shall perish under the mercy of thy Lord. It is destined that Mormonism shall share the same forsaken fate of ancient civilizations.

  35. Misty says:

    my boyfriend is a mormon and won’t stop acting like he is right about everything. and the thing is he doesn’t even follow what he believes and i don’t respect someone who doesn’t go with what they believe at all. i thought i loved him too we have been dating for almost two years and now the whole religion thing is getting worse. i just want someone to tell them all that they aren’t following the truth because i can’t handle this emotional pain. i think it is very outrageous that non members can not enter the temple. i have never in my life had hatred in my heart and i do not wish to now but all i feel is that i want to burn the temple to the ground. I am way more civilized than that but i just don’t want to feel this way against any person because i know its free to practice any religion but i only respect religions that are not contradictory to themselves. i feel that almost all mormons are brainwashed. and all of this is me thinking with my emotions and making very broad generalizations and I’m sorry but my emotions are very strong right now and i can’t think logically accept the fact that i know some things they believe are against the actual bible so please don’t say you believe in the bible but then go against what it says. thank you for letting me vent

    • runtu says:

      Venting is fine. I wouldn’t paint all Mormons with that broad brush, though. It’s obvious to me that religious differences are going to be a huge problem for you in this relationship, so I would advise you either to let the religion thing go, or if you can’t do that, let the relationship go.

  36. gerardo says:

    all of this is bull shit, all mormons and lds which is the same are just being brainwashed because the lds was found by joseph smith who was actually part of the masonry order which comes from satanic cult. The book of mormon was just crap created by piece of shit js to brainwashed people just as hittler did.

  37. Penis says:

    Excellent worke here. I really don’t want Romney or the other LDS to get elected in November.

  38. gfergwe says:

    Get a group of supporters,become mormon,use different positions in the cult to gain power, use your supporters to convince the others,dissolve the mormon church give the evidence and give examples show them what true Christians are.

  39. KnoledgeISpoWer says:

    What I am about to do, many followers will try to wrongly justify, but the truth is that the mormon religion IS a brainwashing organization. What is sad is that I know good people who are falling for this false teaching. I am not a religious person, I have no religion, so this is coming from an honest & pure point of view. I will prove that the book of mormon is terrible & racist as hell; so if you choose to still be a mormon then it all falls on you. I shouldn’t have to tell you mormons what is in the book that you worship, but the following quotes come straight from the book of mormon__ 2 Nephi 5:21- “And he had caused the a cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.”
    (This verse implies that white people are beautiful & delightsome. While people with black skin are cursed, I would like to hear what African American mormons have to say about this)

    Alma 3:6- “And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren”
    (The Lamanites, according to the mormons, were the ancestprs of Native Americans. I personally dislike this idea that I’m cursed because I am not white)

    3 Nephi 2:14-16-“And it came to pass that those Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites;And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair”
    (Once again, claiming that white skin is pure over all other colors of skin, the term “fair” suggests that whites are beautiful to look at, while men & women of color are not)
    Mormon 5:15- “for this people shall be scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us, yea, even that which hath been among the Lamanites, and this because of their unbelief and idolatry.”

    (Theres no way you can justify this, any attempt to would be ignorance at its finest. Here is a book that says the white race is superior & all other races are inferior to their “purity”, I feel sorry for all mormons, especially the non white mormons)
    *There are many more verses in the book of mormon that imply that people of dark skin are cursed, don’t take my word for it, look it up for yourself. It wasn’t until about 30 years ago that black men could obtain “priesthood” in the mormon church; & women of any race are still not allowed to. The book of mormon is a hate doctrine regardless if you see it that way or not. Saying that the Lamanites were cursed with non white skin, then LDS leaders have the nerve to “theorize” that these were my Native American ancestors.The leaders of the LDS church are very tricky, millions of followers have been led blindly by these leaders, it is sad to see. I’m sorry but it takes a very weak mind to believe that whoever obtains priesthood is a true prophet. People shouldn’t be so gullible, no one becomes a prophet just because someone labels him a priest, God doesnt pick & choose people to communicate with, he communicates to all of us; and God certainly does not talk directly to anyone in a one on one conversation. I know mormons who believe this kind of stuf with their so called “modern day prophets.” Take a look at what LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley has to say about blacks being denied priesthood for so long here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=P_KERZlwOXM&NR=1
    In 1954 Elder Mark E. Petersen stated -“If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a celestial resurrection.”
    Now do you believe that there will be slavery in heaven? I hope not. I know that one persons views does not reflect everyones, but you have to realize that the book of mormon promotes this type of thinking. In fact, you can take a look at what past & present members of the mormon priesthood have to say on this issue at this link:

    http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm#racistcomments

    Also, the original founder Joseph Smith was indeed a fraud. But like I said, you don’t have to take my word for any of the things that I have stated here, you can do the research yourself. A mind is a terrible thing to waste, please educate yourself. I expect the Mormons to say that what I have said here today is all lies & I know they will disagree; but the truth of the matter is that I have spoken 100% truth in this comment. Some will continue to believe a false doctrine no matter what. For some, it doesn’t matter if they know its false, they will still continue down a blind path. And that my friends is sad indeed. I personally believe in God without religion, but that’s besides the point. Yet I don’t hate religion or religious people, to each is own; but All I ask is for you to educate yourself fully in whatever you choose to stand for in life. KNOW what it is you represent.
    Peace & blessings to all.

  40. ?????? says:

    Hahahahahaha I’m sorry you hate us so much but its funny how wrong some of your facts are xD

    • runtu says:

      I don’t hate you. I don’t even know you. And what facts did I get wrong? Apparently, you have a hard time understanding sarcasm.

  41. Gary says:

    I want God to destroy the Mormon church because they are traitors. Simply and that’s it. I am angry again. I want God to terminate them. Not because they support man and woman marriage. Because they are traitors. I have a question? If Mormons have met an angel of God and has come from heaven and God sent him to bring them back to Christ, and he was among them and they denied him and rejected him and if he came an angel in disguise as person never recognizing as an angel of God? Has they denied the Holy Ghost? Do they deserve such destruction and total rejection by God? What If I were an angel of God, and came and visit you and you never knew me? If you deny me while God has sent me to you and bring you the good tidings of Jesus love? Is this blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? Was Brigham Young right when he said|: Pray that you do not meet an angel, unless you commit the unpardonable sin.

  42. Gary says:

    I am anti communist. Sorry. I am not Mormon, too. I am christian.

  43. Gary says:

    | do not care about the Mormons.

  44. Gary says:

    Let them leave and do whatever they want. If they want to have sex with animals.Fine. If they want to have sex whatever they want. Do it.

  45. Gary says:

    Tom Clark, I am not Mormon anymore. Because God wanted that away. It was God’s will. I do not know. Only God knows why. Perhaps God rejected the Mormon Church that probably God saved me from this church. Only God knows. Let me say here a quote of the Bible. Let me read this for you, It says in Revelation, Chapter 14, verse, 4, these are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women for they ( 144,000) follow the Lamb with soever he goes. What does it mean? They are the ones who will get in heaven, who have not defiled with women|? Is God discriminating women and men and gays men?
    Why God is choosing the holy ones? What about the doctrine of marriage between man and woman? You are right what you say about the Catholics that they did not keep the celibacy because they have had sex with children. Of course, they will not go heaven. Jesus said, if you do unto these children, yo have done unto me. God will not let them access to heaven. God wants guys like Jesus without spot and blameless and pure. The 144,000 are the ones who imitates Jesus and do what Jesus did. Because it means, they follow Jesus whit soever he goes. Because they are imitators of Jesus Christ, who loves him and are fanatics of him. I am a fanatic of Jesus.I really admire Jesus Christ. I follow him. I keep the celibacy and chastity and I am a virgin. Thanks God for saving me. I am still virgin, chaste and celibate. Because of God goodness is with me. God has vindicated me. Thanks God for all of these things he has done unto me. Now. Tom Clark, you got to repent and ask God to forgive you. Because you cannot go heaven. You got to accept Jesus Christ and do good. This is not funny. If you are married or sealed with a wife. Okay. It is fine. You are doing fine. No problem. It is fine.You will be an angel of God after you are dead. Your sealing is not valid. For gay people who are married is their freedom of choice. It is fine. No problem. Do whatever they want. They will be judged by God according their deeds whether good or bad. God is not respecter of persons. If they did wrong. Of course, God will judge them. We have not the right to judge them. It is the Lord’s work, not us. If your Jesus is my Jesus. Only God knows. I hope your church is true.I pray to God. Perhaps it is true. I hope so. I really hope so. If the church is true, then God has conditions on you. If you broke some commandment then you will lose your sealing and be not valid. Hey, you can say, I am forgiven. Oh, my friend. Do not trust your own heart. For the heart is deceiving and God is greater than our hearts. I believe not in sex. Because sex is carnal. Carnal is against the Laws of God, and the laws of God is against the carnal. So, why will you follow the carnal ways? God gave you the woman to procreate. Just to bring a child. He has never given you a woman to lust her, to use her, or take her as sexual object. He has given you a wife to bring a child. But not for flesh. She is just your friend and companion. Not for sex. That’s it. God gave Adam a wife who is Eve for companionship not for sex. But Adam violated God’s rule when he asked touch not this, and he disobeyed. Then, Adam is obligated to be with Eve, and the rest have to pay and marry a wife. God said, it is not good for a man to be alone, I will make him a help meet. God provided a woman for Adam that he is not alone, not for sex. It is God’s will that our body is not for fornication. Our body is the temple of God. Any man who seeks to destroy the temple of God, him the Lord will destroy. I am the temple of God, because it is my body that is provided not for fornication. I am the vessel of Jesus Christ, the cup of Jesus Christ. I am one in Christ. I am in Christ and Christ is in me, and I am one spirit in Christ. |I am the Shining Vessel of Jesus Christ. I am the Holy Vessel of Jesus. I am the Cup of Jesus Christ. I am the Shining vessel of Jesus. Because it is God’s will. You are also the temple of God. Forgive me, if you say that I am arrogant in this. Of course, I boast in God and glory in God, I glory in my body in Christ, because this is God’s will. I boast in Christ that is in me. We are one. I am in Christ and Christ is me.

  46. Gary says:

    If gays can be cured. Then straights can be also cured. Because celibacy cures heterosexuality, gays and all of these kinds of sexual things. It is just following Jesus Christ and follow the rules of Jesus. The Bible is the healer because Jesus is the healer and the gays do not need to go to evergreen. They need Jesus. The evergreen are denying the miracles of Jesus Christ. Because Jesus has the power to heal sick people and of course he can heal gay people. Mormons are in danger to kick pricks to God and they use the power of the priesthood to abuse the power to change gay people? Alas! Really? Are they doing this? The gays do not need to go there. I have heard testimonies that gays has been cured by the power and miracle of Jesus Christ in christian religions. They are cured miraculous. So, I do not support the Mormon institutions such Evergreen because it does not cure because it is just a machine. Jesus is not a machine. Machine will never change gays, even therapy or doctors or leaders or Elders or pastors, or presidents or whoever nor I cannot change them. Only Jesus can change them. I have heard testimonies that Jesus changed them. It is incredible. The Bible is the healer because God’s word is the source of the healing of the sin. Jesus came to die and heal the sinner who is sick with sin. You are sick, because you are sinner. When you hate someone, you are sick. When you do evil, you are sick. All are sinners. then, all of you are sicks. Jesus loves the straight and gays as the same thing. Jesus loves the straight who are tempted to gay sex and fall into the traps of gay sex and Jesus forgives the straights who are predators sexual, demoniac and evil and devourers and insatiable beast seeking to devour sex to gays men. Jesus forgives also gays people because Jesus is the doctor and the healer and forgives. Forgive me. Straights are not a good thing too. I have investigated and tested them and evaluated them to straight guys have homosexual tendencies and I agree to the psychologists and scientists. If you say that this is not true that you rely on revelation and not on intelligence. You are wrong. God said, the glory of God is his intelligence. If you want revelation, God’s revelation is the intelligence, and a revelation without intelligence has no use and is not valid. Evergreen is a false revelation, and it is not part of intelligence. Why not experience God’s miracle on gays? Jesus miracles are real than evergreen. The problem is that Mormons do not have enough faith and are not sufficient humble. Men cannot heal. Only Jesus can heal. Of course, Elders has the priesthood to heal. But, God gave a certain limit and portion to do what they can do. God knew man can abuse the power of the priesthood so God gave you the priesthood a portion and the ability to use. You have the priesthood but you cannot abuse the power. Men are nothing and comes from the dust and will go to the dust again and God is not a man that repent and nor a man that he lies. God will come to pass his words even the earth and heavens passes away. Let’s say God has sent me to be different than you, and your wife and the gays? Could be that God’s will is different than yours? Who knows? But, if God has sent me to be different than yours, who the heck are you to judge me? Will you judge me because I am different than you? Would you accept even God favors me than to you? Would you accept this? Are you willing to be humble? I wish your salvation but I cannot force you because I cannot force the law of God unto you. I have always given my life to Jesus since I was a kid. I was never Mormon but I became Mormon because I prayed to God to bring me to a church where I be brought and I was called by a special ambassador with no name that invited me to join the church. It was just magic. It was God’s answer prayers. I prayed to God and he quickly responded me in two weeks later. The phone ran and I took the phone and the man answered me, and I accepted the call and the missionaries step by my apartment and I received them not because of them, because I prayed to God because God is my friend. Believe me. The missionaries were very nice with me. It was cool at all. But, later, things changed and it was God’s will. Jesus said, I who he i send him and if he rejects him, they did not rejected him but he rejected me, and if they rejected me, then they have also rejected the Father. Now, I say , you have all rejected me. But you did not rejected me.You have rejected the source of life who is the Lord Jesus Christ, not me, and you also rejected the Father. Now, it is not my responsibility to be with you. I am not responsible for your sins. You will bear it for yourselves. I did all what I could do. I did the rest. I am not responsible for you anymore. If you want gays people to be changed, do something better. Only the love of Jesus Christ can change them. Jesus is the same of today, yesterday and forever and ever. Jesus has the power and not man.. Oh, you are like Peters. Jesus rebuked Peter for not healing a sick man. Jesus demanded Peter to bring them, and he healed them immediately. They were recovered. Let’s say that homosexuality is not sin. Let’s say homosexuality is good and they were born that way. But, God is angry with them, and cannot forgive them and put a law against them. Even gays were born that way, God does not accept them for a certain reason that cannot be explain here. Because it is sacred. God is the same of today and yesterday and forever and God was angry with Israel for 40 days because they doubted God and he has sent the manna of heaven and they were dead, and the manna was their hope, and they died because they were a stiff-necked and rebellious house of Israel. God punished the Israelite for being so disobedient, and he put the minor laws until Jesus Christ come back and he will be our law and be our lawgiver. Okay. Jesus said, my words will come to pass even the heavens and earth is passed away. what does it mean? even you escape from this planet, and go to another, Jesus will be there and he will follow you and cause his words come to pass and it will be nightmare and they will hide from caves and fear and tremble and shake and cry because God’s words shall come to pass for God is immutable and unchangeable. Even Satan frustrate the plans of God, but he will not. Because God’s words will come to pass. God is laughing at you. Because I also laugh at you, too. You can hide from God and God can laugh at you and you can hide under your bed and he is there, and you can go away and he is still there because God will not forsake you, neither abandon you. He is still there, and he is watching over you and he loves you. Is not the love that causes you and makes you feel, stop loving me? Is not love that makes you feel guilty and cry and you feel embarrassed? You can say, there is no God. Of course, he is still there. You can say, God does not see us. of course he is seeing you. You cannot hide your sins from God. If you are sinning and you say God is not seeing us, of course he is. God is love. He is immutable and unchangeable. You cannot do nothing. Is not the love of God that makes you feel that he is putting you down? Because God is love. Love overcomes all.

  47. Almirante says:

    I do not believe in the Mormon Church, nor the Book of Mormon neither Joseph smith. God has punished me for believing not the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ and has delivered me into a delusion for believing the Mormon Church because I did not believed the word of God, in the Bible. I have learned a lesson because God punishes who loves his son as a father rebukes his son he punishes. A bastard is never rebuked and punished by a father or God. God is love. I have seen the Lord’s manifestation of his love and his forgiveness because I believed everything of the Mormon Church. God fulfills his word and will come to pass whether the Mormons likes it or not or any other who likes it or not. In the Bible condemns Catholics because they worship idols. The bible condemns Mormons because they believe a different Christ and a different gospel. God has punished me for believing a false gospel. Because he loves me. I accept God’s punishment but it is not pleasant. The Son of Perdition is in the Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints, that is true.Because sooner or later, the Son of perdition will display he is God and when Jesus will come from the skies, will burn him from the Inaccessible Light, and perhaps Jesus will destroy the Mormon Church and burn them with fire. I do not understand. Well, no one will read this, because God purposed for this, so that he also delivers men into delusion just like God has given unto me. Now, I thank God for saving me from this sect, the Mormon Church. I really thank God. Because God is love. Only I pray for the Mormons to be evangelical and cease to do all evils and bad ways. I hope they repent. I have been praying that there is hope for them. I do not want to come back to in delusion again by being in this church. Thanks God! Jesus saves!

    • runtu says:

      I can’t imagine a just God would punish anyone because they honestly believed in the LDS church. And if God delivers people into such delusions, then it is God who should be punished, not the believer.

      I’m glad you have found love in your beliefs, but it concerns me that you are so hostile and condemning of other people’s beliefs. It seems a little ironic that someone who proclaims God’s love can take such joy in the imagined suffering and destruction of others. I have no use for that kind of religion. Sorry.

  48. Almirante says:

    if the church is true, then beating his neighbor is true, and saying to his neighbor he smokes and accusing his neighbor when he did not and does not smoke, and gossips are true, and killing others are true, polygamy is true, and elders having kissing each other in the bathroom is true, and the White race is true and pure and perfect and racism is true, and then their Jesus picture is true, and the Man of the Shroud of Turin is false and not true, and all of their doctrines may be true or not. Only God judges. God judges. No one can destroy the Mormon Church. Neither the government nor the White House. Only Jesus Christ can do it. It is his decision. If the Church is not right with God, God will deal with them.

    • You really think you can destroy gods true church. Many people have tried. and they have all FAILED!! The lds church is the only church that has true authority to act in gods name. You will all see when the end comes.And you relies that it was the lamb of gods true church. And you see joseph smith on his right side. I pray that the spirit will open your eyes to the truth. And you willl come join gods one and only true church.lead my prophets and apostles
      in these latter days. THE CHURCH OF JESUS CRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS..amen..

      • runtu says:

        I’m always amazed that, even after almost 2 years, people still think I’m trying to destroy the LDS church. I used to say that sarcasm is lost on the young, but apparently it’s not just the young.

      • runtu, that wast directed towards you. as so much as the many who have commented on this subject.

  49. Hayden Smith says:

    That sounds like my kind of church teaching young people how to act and behave, and on top of all that 3 days of suffering to make you grateful for what you have, I might just join that church thank you for your informative packet,

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