I had an interesting exchange last night with a believing Mormon about the “trustworthiness” of those of us who have left the Mormon church.
He started out with this:
I am afraid that when the spirit of apostasy takes over a man/person they no longer are guided by truth. In fact I have had an experience with an apostate this very week that demonstrates the spirit by which they are guided and I can tell you that truth is not one of the things this spirit demonstrates.
Out of 7 things stated by this man 7 were out right lies that those who were audience to these lies coming out of his mouth, knew full well they were lies and some actually demonstrated and witnessed to him that they were lies and yet he continued to state them as if they were truth and we were suppose to believe them.
It is a sad thing to see the dumbing down of those who were once enlightened. They just don’t seem to be seeing how obvious it is that they are lying.
Satan doesn’t stand by those he has taken claim to.
BTW we weren’t speaking of anything to do with the church– we were trying to work with the guy on irrigation.
To which I responded:
Let’s see if I have this right. We who no longer believe in Mormonism are liars who have been claimed by Satan.
Gee, thanks for pointing out how obvious that is. I never would have known. (I even added a smiley.)
But he wasn’t finished:
Well I guess it is funny until you have to deal with them on the secular level. Today while in his home with the water master we felt the demons and darkness tangible as the furniture.
It was no pleasure I assure you.
Granted, I don’t think this guy reflects the average Mormon in his attitude toward those of us who have left, but he does represent the extreme in an attitude I find all too common among Mormons.
Our entire lives we were told that only really bad people would leave the church, and only the most evil would actively speak out against the church. We regularly hear that no one would leave the church for legitimate reasons. Nope, those who leave must have some hidden sins, or they are too proud, or someone offended them. I just had someone yesterday tell me that I was just looking for an excuse to leave.
Because of the indoctrinate we all went through, it’s very difficult for a lot of Mormons to see us exmos as people with reasons for the way we see the church. It’s far easier to dismiss us as evil or prideful and thus not worthy of their time. Joseph Smith was notorious in demonizing those who left his church, characterizing them as traitors and the vilest of people, and that tradition has continued today, as witnessed by our friend.
Unfortunately, I see some of the same thing on the exmormon side. Some people tend to lump all Mormons into one group who show a variety of negative personality traits, such as judgmentalism, arrogance, and stupidity.
But unless we see Mormons as individuals, too, we have no right to complain when they stereotype us. A friend of mine is convinced that there can be no dialogue between Mormons and exMormons because these attitudes are too entrenched. I’m a little more hopeful, but I’m afraid I won’t be expecting it from this guy.
Runtu's Rincón 
People like that frighten me, and if there is a “Satan,” it is people such as him who are most likely the ones claimed. The missionaries used to take me with them when they needed someone to do “splits” with them in the more hairy areas of town (I don’t know why they thought I’d be an asset). I sat (and stood in doorways) as they spoke with people obviously stoned, high, coming off a week-long binge, and adorned with obvious prison tattoos, etc. Never did I feel palpable “evil” and never did they comment that they had felt it. If you want to feel “evil,” I’m sure you will feel it. If your intentions are to share love, acceptance, knowledge, etc., then I’m sure you will feel that.
One of the many things I’ve learned from my close friend Bryan (who coincidently is ex-LDS) is that everyone has something to offer and a story to tell if you will only give them the chance to tell it. I don’t know how many homeless people and vagrants I’ve conversed with because my friend initiated a conversation with them. I can’t help but wonder what this gentleman lost because he decided to label this other man. I have found liars in and out of the Church, and despite their tall-tales, they still have something to give… and are also in need of something as well that I might be able to offer.
Sometimes I wonder if we’ve lost that “cup of love” that Joseph Smith once proclaimed to be a grand fundamental principle of Mormonism. So often people stand at the edge as if the arduous task of building a bridge is needed in order to reach the person on the other side when all that is truly needed is an outstretched hand.
There is no way we can know what every ex-Mormon is thinking but I have observed some similarities in the ones I have heard talk or read. The term “crazy” comes to mind. I can see how your friend came to his conclusion about them being evil or heavilly influenced by evil. It seems they get along well enough in the world until they start talking religion and then it is as though a switch goes on and they are carried away in the most hateful nasty diatribe one ever hears. It isn’t a discussion of about doctrine that they don’t accept anymore. It is way beyond the bounds of courteous discussion or even logic in some cases. Normal people don’t behave like that. It is kind of Charles Manson like. I am not painting every ex-Mormon with that brush, but if they are writing in blogosphere, I think that is more the rule rather than the exception. Or so it seems to me.
One more thing about evil -.I worked on death row for a while and I can say I have been around truly evil people. I know how they can be essentially honest apparently loving and responsible people one minute and the next they have sock full of batteries are beating another inmate to death over something as inconsequential as a look.
There is a very real sense of foreboding when you are around those people. It may be training or experience but there was something else there too. Something you just couldn’t put your finger on. I kind of get that same “something is wrong here” feeling in my gut when I read or listen to some of these former or anti-Mormon types too. Some of these hardened “you-are-going-to-hell-because-you-think-differently-than-me” fundamentalist Christians give me that same feeling too. I converse with a fair number of regular blogsters who have different religious convictions that mine and I don’t usually feel like that with them so it isn’t just a difference of opinion or experience or exchanges over doctrine.
I converse with a fair number of regular blogsters who have different religious convictions that mine and I don’t always feel like trhat with them so it isn’t just a difference in opinion or experince or exchanges over doctrine.
Are you saying that I’m crazy and like Charles Manson? Yikes. And I thought I was a nice guy.
Runtu,
Can I join your quasi-commune (if you’re going to be like Manson, you just have to have one. All of the cool crazy people are doing it)?
Yeah, it might motivate me to move back to California.
Seriously, though, I’m speechless. That’s the first time anyone has ever said anything like that to me before. I’ve been called lots of bad names before, but never crazy and never Mansonesque.
runtu
Since I don’t know anything about you I have no idea. I only found your site today. Are you onew of those off-the-wall crazy Mormon haters or do you merely have a different opinion and respectfully disagree?
Of course I don’t hate Mormons. I am a Mormon, officially, and all my family and a lot of my friends are active LDS. I just find it stunning that you equate people who are vocal in opposing Mormonism with Charles Manson(!).
Really, that’s “off-the-wall” in ways I’ll never be.
JL, you must have issues. Part of the problem for Mormons is their constant indoctrination in persecution complexes. When they are confronted by people who tell them that Joseph Smith married teenage girls and other men’s wives and lied and defamed and cheated people out of money then they immediately label that person as a liar and hateful when in fact those things are true. The problem here is something called cognitive dissonance; people feel really bad when their world view is confronted with starkly different information and to protect their world view and stability they feel badly and reject the new information.
I presume you are still LDS and as a result cherish and view your experiences with the church in a certain way. However, you might view those same experiences very differently if you discovered that the church had systematically lied and deceived you throughout your life. Might I even say that you might possibly hate the church for its manipulative dishonesty.
For example, in many way I cherished my mission in Bolivia and believed the hardships to be quite worthwhile because I believed what I was doing. Looking back on it now I see nearly criminal neglect, abuse, and negligence on the part of the church and it makes me angry.
It might help for you consider the question of how you would feel if you discovered it wasn’t true. I know that for many Mormons that’s nearly inconceivable, but I’d posit that that is the real problem with you and most other LDS with ex-Mormons.
What is going on here? I have not accused you or anyone of your posters of being wild-eyed lunatic but yet you seem to glom onto that charachterization like you took it personally. I don’t know if it fits any of you but you sure seem to think it does.
Um, you said that the wild-eyed nutjobs on the blogosphere were “more the rule rather than the exception.” How are we supposed to take that?
I’m trying to be as lighthearted as I can about this because the assertion is so silly on its face. So, no, I’m not necessarily taking it personally, but just kind of amazed at how someone can compare exmo bloggers to Manson with a straight face.
The funny thing is that yesterday I saw someone equate Joseph Smith to Charles Manson. I’m guessing you find that comparison as absurd as I find yours.
JL Fuller:
“runtu
Since I don’t know anything about you I have no idea. I only found your site today. Are you onew of those off-the-wall crazy Mormon haters or do you merely have a different opinion and respectfully disagree?”
No, Runtu isn’t one of those, even though there are quite a few around the Net. Maybe you should get to know him a bit better before making assessments? I’ve known him in cyber-space for years, and sometimes critical of some of his views, and watched him go from a believing Mormon to an unbeliever, and I don’t believe he’s “off the wall”, nor a “Mormon hater”.
Thanks, Ray, for the kind words.
Don’t you just hate it when someone comes to your blog, doesn’t bother to read it and get acquainted, and then leaves a comment like how crazy exmos are? I will admit that I can become a little wild eyed crazy when I am commenting about the church, but then I don’t like being lied to. It boggles my mind when the facts are laid out and the facts come from church sources, that I am labeled “anti-Mormon” and not dwelling on the positive aspects of the church. But, even in my most wild ranting, I am not even close to Charles Manson, nor the infamous Joseph Smith. I personally can’t decide who was worse, J. Smith or B. Young? But neither one has a character that I would want to emulate. JL Fuller, next time it might be prudent to read before you comment and think before you speak.
When I want dialog with a Mormon I call someone in my family. Realize, they will rarely initiate a phone call because I’m the gay/Democrat/spawn of Satan, and I think that because they’re Mormon that they think they’ll get something sinful and deadly if they pick up the phone and connect via electricity across the miles.
I did have a nice talk with my born and raised Mormon dad the other day. I think he went and got a beer (he’s an adorable Jack-Mormon) after our conversation because he was a little shook up because I told him that I loved him, and ya know, I just don’t say that often. Okay – confession – I hadn’t said it in years and it felt really good.
“Our entire lives we were told that only really bad people would leave the church, and only the most evil would actively speak out against the church. We regularly hear that no one would leave the church for legitimate reasons.”
Actually I’ve never heard any of these sentiments taught or spoken about in or out of church. Where I do see it/read about it is on the internet by people with screen names and avitars who aren’t having to speak to a person face to face. By fearlessly confronting a computer screen it allows a level of incivility and rude and unkind behaviour that we’d never tolerate in person. And it applies to both end of the spectrum, ex-mos and TBM as Runtu mentions above. The same arguments both for and against are repeated endlessly and eventually in an effort to score points it becomes personal. Nothing is decided, no minds are changed, no one is enlightened. People just retreat back to sites of like minded posters to lament the other sides faults and failings. It seems that there should be a better a way to exchange points of view than what this all seems to have become.
I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, but I do think it’s important to have a conversation with people, even those with whom I vehemently disagree. It’s really hard when someone else sees things in such rigid terms, but I suppose that’s just a hint that maybe a conversation isn’t going to work.
Everyone is welcome to say what they want here, and I promise I won’t get my feelings hurt. 🙂
“No, Runtu isn’t one of those, even though there are quite a few around the Net. Maybe you should get to know him a bit better before making assessments?” Ray, go back and re-read everything I said. Can you find I said anything directed specifically against any individual? Don’t read something into what I said that isn’t there.
George brought up a salient point I believe. I, too, have never heard any such comments about former members from active current members or Church leadership. The uncivil and hateful remarks come from self admitted former members. At least that is my experience. Can you show me any former member who is writing regularly on the blogosphere about the Church who isn’t embittered or vengeful and whose rhetoric isn’t slanderous or maligning? Can you show me any writer who has a nominal readership whose participants are not likewise uncharitable towards the Church who and use defamatory language? Can you show me any former member who engages in Socratic style or dialectic when discussing the Church? Can you even find one?
Runtu, glad you are feeling better, I just Love, Love, Love this blog.
Sideon, you are too cool. Your comments gave me my smile for the day.
JBSmith, you make a good point. But having been a TBM for over 40 years, I can tell you that those reasons for leaving the church are indeed taught, maybe not from the pulpit, but they are spoken. When I was younger I use to ask what a person could do that would be so bad that they would be sent to outer darkness, keeping forgiveness in mind. I was told it would not be that many and I had nothing to fear. Now I find that just by leaving the church, having once believed, I am now a candidate. But in my mind, that beats waiting on the really good guys that get to go to the very top. I know, that would only be if I was truly worthy, otherwise maybe second floor. A real peace has come over me since leaving the church. The after-life is what it is. A Big Surprise.
I should have included “present comapny excepted” in my post above. Pardon the error.
“Can you show me any former member who is writing regularly on the blogosphere about the Church who isn’t embittered or vengeful and whose rhetoric isn’t slanderous or maligning? Can you show me any writer who has a nominal readership whose participants are not likewise uncharitable towards the Church who and use defamatory language? Can you show me any former member who engages in Socratic style or dialectic when discussing the Church? Can you even find one?”
I would hope that I am not embittered or vengeful, and I don’t think you’ll find slanderous or maligning rhetoric here.
I know you’re not trying to paint with a broad brush, but you are. I’m simply asking for you to engage in dialogue with me as a person, not as a member of some group that you have obvious hostility towards. I think that’s a fair request.
Kitty said
“I was told it would not be that many and I had nothing to fear. Now I find that just by leaving the church, having once believed, I am now a candidate.” Kitty, that just isn’t the case. Even the most ardent anti-Mormon won’t go to OD. You have to have had a perfect witness of the Holy Ghost, Christ or God the Father for that to happen. Perfect witness means actually seeing them face-to-face and then denying their message or even that they existed.
The more one deviates from the Gospel by not living the commandments, the weaker the connection to the Holy Ghost gets. Without His companionship the more influence we feel from the Satan. One either walks towards the light or they walk towards the dark. It is a zero sum game. It seems to be even more pronounced to those who once had the full time companionship of the Holy Ghost. His absence isn’t quite as apparent to those who never had it full time. That is how I understand it.
You say you have found true peace since leaving the Church. That may be. Who can tell but you? Some folks join the Church and never get the confirmation they need to prosper in the understanding of the Gospel. I suppose it is because they never put much effort into it. Others get it but drift away over time by not living the commandments and then one day they discover they are not really in the Church anymore but members in name only. Some are legitimate victims of abuse by others and reject the Church because of their experience. That happens.
I was a parole officer in my working life and I had many members on my caseload. Each got into trouble by one of two ways; Sex outside the bounds of Church teaching or by taking financial “shortcuts”. A few got entangled with the law by substance abuse but very few. It was the non-Mormons who allowed substances to snag them. I know of one man who killed his son-in-law but he was not assigned to me so I don’t know what precipitated his crime. That’s it- sex and money. If these people had followed the commandments they would not have been in trouble. They acknowledged that. I have to think this also applies to others too.
Runtu
I think you must have been composing before I dis-included you with my addendum above. I would like to know hat caused you to leave the Church if that is something you are willing to talk about here.
JL, if only it were that simple. The only thing you forgot in your well meaning reply to me is that I need to keep reading the BoM. I wish I had a dollar for every time that was the solution. I feel like I still have the Holy Ghost with me. When I was the guest speaker at a Christian church a few years ago, I had the most wonderful experience. As I knelt to pray for guidance for the talks I had to present, I was overcome with the most loving feeling. These people were strangers to me and I was an out of state guest speaker. They knew I had a Mormon background and even though I had sent a tape of what I would cover if they choose me, they were still very apprehensive. I think they thought I would do all that doom and gloom we are so famous for. It was a turning point in my life and when they wanted to pay me, I just could not let them. (another Mormon thing) They will never know how much I should have paid them.
I am the same person I have always been. Get past the stereotype of just sinners leaving the church. I am not wayward. I was one of the lucky ones who researched the church and left because of it. As Nietzsche said so eloquently “Faith means the will to avoid knowing what is true.” I choose not to have faith when the facts are so obviously not in the favor of TSCC. I do think you mean well and your comments to me exudes kindness. Please stay with this blog, you will be enlightened. Thanks for your sincerity.
K*tty,
As a still “believing” member of the Church, I just want you to know that I think it’s groovy that you have found peace in life. Of course, I would love if we were all one big happy family under the umbrella of the Church, but I have no qualms about fashioning a bigger umbrella. 😉
As Brigham once said (quoting from memory): “A good man [or woman] is a good man [or woman] whether in this Church or out of it.”
I think sometimes in the realm of the internet, we lose site of the fact that we are so much more than our religious (or lack thereof) affiliations.
Just some thoughts from the foyer…
-Stu
Stu,
If all church members were like you, it would be much easier to stay.
K*tty: I had a similar experience one night in a little episcopal church kneeling at an altar rail with 4 people I barely knew and a priest laying their hands on me and praying for me to be able to get through the worst time of my life. The tent is indeed very large and not restricted to a few chosen. I’m still in the LDS church and feel like I’ve made my peace with what’s true and not and what’s important and not but I’ll never assume as I once did that we have any sort of exclusive claim on God’s love.
An JL, people who come to the end of their string with something that was as much a part of them as their skin and bones need to be able to grieve and that includes going through all the stages of death and dying. Don’t paint everyone one with a such a broad brush as Runtu mentioned and try and cut people a little slack.
Amen. Well put GBSmith.
JL Fuller:
“No, Runtu isn’t one of those, even though there are quite a few around the Net. Maybe you should get to know him a bit better before making assessments?” Ray, go back and re-read everything I said. Can you find I said anything directed specifically against any individual? Don’t read something into what I said that isn’t there.
No, you didn’t. And I was only giving you MY opinion of Runtu in reply to your previous question.
This is what you asked Runtu:
runtu
Since I don’t know anything about you I have no idea. I only found your site today. Are you onew of those off-the-wall crazy Mormon haters or do you merely have a different opinion and respectfully disagree?
Well I told you what I know about him. You can take that as a second opinion (Runtu’s being the first).
So far no one here has taken me up on my request to provide links to former member blogs which do not discuss the Church using inflammatory language. Why is it then, if it is an intellectual decision to leave the Church, do we see such words as liars, evil, duped, deceptive, and other emotionally charged terms? Why do so many take the words of Church authorities and parse them taking them out of context or without foundation and then make patently false claims about what they really mean? If people make an intellectual decision about changing other things in their life do they use these terms in discussing their reasons for changing? Do Baptists who choose to become Methodists set up web sites to attack the Southern Baptist Convention? Is the SBC any less adamant about their version of Christianity than the LDS? Do we not see the SBC comment about the wrongness of certain other denominations, Catholicism and Judaism? Of course they do. But where are the anti-SBC websites and hate filled bloggers? I don’t claim they don’t exist. But if they do they are not in abundance. I have not observed any other phenomenon as passion-filled as former Mormons who express their displeasure with the LDS Church.
So why did most former members leave the Church? I can’t make that judgment because I don’t have the data and the Church doesn’t publish it as far as I know. But of the people I am aware of, they left because they were excommunicated or had deviated so far from the teachings of the Church they just were not adherents to their covenants anymore. In other words, if they had it they lost it or they never had it to begin with. Does the Church willy-nilly go looking for people to toss out or are there other reasons for removing them from the rolls of the faithful?
One other point; I have met a few former members who acknowledge that their lifestyle was not in keeping with Church doctrine and they understood why they were excommunicated. But they were more committed to their life style and preferred it to the Church. Many homosexuals belong to this group. Also, some choose to live with someone who is not their lawfully married spouse. And of course there is always the sex offender “who was just teaching the kids about sex”.
I had an encounter with a former seminary instructor who wanted to teach his version of the Gospel. This despite the fact he had been commissioned to teach the Church’s version. His justification was “intellectual honesty”. But when we got right down to it down, he wasn’t paying his tithing and couldn’t get a recommend and that put him in violation of the terms of his employment contract. He was placed on probation by the CES but his commitment to “intellectual honesty” required he leave the Church. The bottom line was he wanted to do it his way rather than the way he was being paid to do it and in violation of his contract. He would not conform to his supervisors directions. But rather than just leave Church employment, which doesn’t pay much by the way, and go find a better paying job, his pride was injured so he had to make a statement and left the Church. Of course that is his choice and no one denies it to him. Now he has a website where he berates Church leadership. Is there more to this story than he was telling? That is up to the reader to decide.
I think most of my blog links are to fairly noninflammatory exmo blogs. Have you looked at any of them?
As for the rest of your comments, you pretty much repeat the standard “reasons why people leave” according to the church. Doesn’t sound like you’re particularly interested in knowing why we leave. It’s not that we wanted a different lifestyle, or we lied about what the brethen say, or we broke our covenants. I’ve explained why I left, and you so far have refused to engage anything I said.
Edit: OK, Reformed Egyptian’s blog is pretty inflammatory. But the rest are just nice folks like me. Are you going to continue to lump us all in the crazy-ass Mormon-hater camp?
For the one true and special people, I would refrain from going to my blog because the words would make their eyes bleed. Those special people expect the worst from me… and I oblige.
Runtu is one of the NICEST Exmo folks I’ve had the pleasure of meeting (albeit over the internets).
I really liked what you had to say up until the last two paragraphs. I also have had this same experience where people assume that you must be a vile human being for leaving the church. Sadly, I can remember myself having these thoughts myself. What a shame.
But then we got to the last two paragraphs. And I have to say that I couldn’t possibly agree more. We must be very careful to not embody the very characteristics that we loath when applied to ourselves. It is important for us to remember that many of our family members and dear friends are still members of the church. It is important is realize that they have their reasons that are, in many cases, just as valid as our reasons for leaving.
As a side note, thank you for all of your posts. I have been reading your blog for a little while and find it inspiring. You are a very good writer. I certainly hope you compile your mission stories and get it published. I would be happy to put down the money to have a hard copy.
JLFuller,
Although my blog is not just about Mormon issues and I don’t post a lot, you can check it out to see a non-embittered blog. You can also see my journey from belief to disbelief. It’s not the best example, but it is an example. (http://jinxidoru.blogspot.com)
Runtu
I do not aim to offend and have tried to couch my observations as being just that – my observations. Admittedly, a great many of the people I observed were people in trouble with the law. That is understandable given I was the case manager they were assigned to. But I tried to make that clear. So far though, no one has challenged my observations as not being what happened to them. Not that it is important. No one has to explain why they are no longer members. But still, no one has said thier reason for leaving was different from any of my observations. Best of luck Runtu and others. Mike Bailey, I will visit your site.
JLFuller
You didn’t offend me. I just think it’s odd that you lump all of us in with your observations. I don’t understand that at all. Did you not read my response as to why I left? It wasn’t at all for the reasons you assumed. If you don’t want to engage that, fine. But I did at least try to help you understand.
I just want to say that I love reading Reformed Egyptian’s blog. His is in a similar dilemma as you are Runtu. I feel and appreciate his pain and I like to read his perspective. I just wish he would post more often.
JLFuller, I also work in a legal field, so don’t even get me started on Mormon lawyers and high up businessmen who don’t pay their bills, and use the church when it suits them. I personally know Mormon businessmen who pay up thousands of dollars, back tithing, when it is time to go to a temple event with their TB wives, when most days they do not live like Mormons. When Las Vegas was starting out, a Mormon story that has passed down for years was this: A general authority came to town. The bottom line of his message was this. “Make money if you can, make it honestly if you can, but make money.” Gee, I wonder what he meant?
Another thing about the Mormons in Las Vegas. It used to be that if you worked as a dealer or anything dealing with gaming, even parking cars for the casinos, you could not get a temple recommend. (They have since changed that) But, if you were super high up in the management of it and didn’t taint yourself by the day to day involvement of actually being on the floor, you could go to the temple. Of course the higher up you are in gaming, the more tithing you paid.
My favorite attorney story is the Mormon who used to beat his wife and the bishop, just turning his head. The bishop did nothing until this grand guy put her in the hospital. They are since divorced and he is on to his third wife, the second left for the same reason. And can I further add, that this grand guy was the sweetest Mormon you could meet and knew his scriptures like the back of his hand. This is only the tip of the ice burg of my Mormon’s Behaving Badly repertoire. (maybe some day coming to a theatre near you) Stressing again, I did not leave the church because of the people. I did not leave because I wanted to sin. You can still do that and go to church. I could walk into my Bishop today and still hold my head up high. I just choose not to live the lie. I still feel the Holy Ghost and the love of my Father in Heaven. I don’t think you have to be Mormon to have that gift.
Oh, and let me add this about tithing. I love that now I can decide where my contributions go. I don’t know where much of the tithing goes, and neither do most Mormons, but only a small percentage of tithing goes to help the less fortunate. I only know this because they report that part. My favorite quote in the past few years about tithing is, (that no tithing funds were used to pay for the billion dollar mall in Salt Lake) I guess you can rationalize anything.
Just one more thing. The reason that there is NOT a lot of other Christian church bashing blogs is because they all basically believe in the same aspect of the God in the Bible. They are also not preaching the spurious origin of God. When you leave one Christian church to go to another, no one thinks it’s a big deal, you are still Christian. But when you leave the Mormons and go anywhere or nowhere, it is “Bottom floor, please.”
I like RE’s blog; if I didn’t, I wouldn’t link to it. He’s a good man in an impossible situation. We’ve spoken on the phone, and I appreciate his efforts to respect his wife and still remain true to himself. I know what that’s like.
Runtu, that is one of the first fun things about your blog for me. I had been reading the RE’s blog and it sounded like he was going to stop. One day I could no longer access it. So that was an added bonus when I saw that he was on your blog role.
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